How Do You Know When You Need a Undersize Crank Geat on a Hemi Gear Drive

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   ne57 Well-Known Fellow member

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   Has anyone used the timing gear bulldoze ready from Thunderchicken? I'm told these are Chinese imports. I find goods from China can vary tremendously in quality, not neccasarily all junk.

   I encounter the Milodon set up for the LA smallblock has the same role number as for the old 392 Hemi(which I take), and I know regular timing chain sets interchange between the two. And so I'm hoping someone has some real world comments about the smallblock Thunderchicken set, which looks like is the aforementioned for the 392. They advertize different prices though for the ii applications and then maybe at that place IS a deviation?

   Much appreciated, thanks.

2. Just purchase a good American made chain. I tin can't call up of one expert reason to run a gear drive.

3. 

   earthmover in the tire smoke

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   ive never heard of them could you post a picture or link..my friend has the mil.in his motor hes happy with information technology...i just used the tensioner sold by mopar...

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   inkjunkie Well-Known Fellow member

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   considering they audio just like my ex-wife.....whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnneeeeeee....

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   Max340 Well-Known Fellow member

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   How well-nigh more authentic degreeing of the cam and no stretch that will crave replacing the chain to regain the proper degreeing?

6. 

   SRT_DSTR15 Well-Known Member

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   they exercise audio dainty, but I believe the cat one requires drilling the block or something If I retrieve correctly

7. 

   JR Pissed off senior fellow member.

   It'south just 2 holes that demand to be drilled and tapped, no big bargain. I just bought one off fishy68 for my 360. I ran a Pete Jackson noisy gear drive on a 350 that I built when I was 13 and loved information technology. Final I heard that motor concluded up in a Toyota choice upwards.

   From the CAT website...

   INSTALLATION OF GEAR DRIVE TIMING Prepare

   MOPAR 318/331/340/354/360/392 PLATE MOUNT 3 (iii) GEARS DRIVE – INSTALLATION GUIDE

   1, Place the idle gear mounting plate on the cam servant and loosely tight the bolts.
   2. Place cam and crank gears on the cam shaft and creepo snort.
   three. Drill additional bolt holes follow past the bolt holes pattern on the mounting plate
   with 17/64 scrap at engine block from 2 commodities holes at mounting plate lower side to
   0.750" deep.
   four. Tap both holes with 5/16-xviii tap and clean the holes thoroughly.
   5, Install supplied 5/sixteen bolts at the new commodities holes and torque to 20 ft-lbs.
   6. Install cam gear and torque the thrust commodities to 45 ft-lbs.
   7. Identify a news paper between all gear teeth to ensure proper backfire maintained.
   eight. Engine Timing:
   a. Install damper on crank and set NO.1 cylinder at TDC position.
   b. Using Cam maker specification to detect No.i intake opening degree and movement
   crank to that degree.
   c. Place a dial indicator on summit of valve to ensure the lift of cam specification has
   reached.

   For instance, if the cam specification indicates the intake opens at 39º with
   0.50" lift. Plough the crank to 39º with punch indicator show a 0.050"elevator reached.
   d. Mark on the cam gear this is a "0º" timing mark for the cam gear. Install
   cam gear bolt.

   nine. Y'all tin can advance or retard the engine timing by position the crank gear cardinal way
   in five different positions co-ordinate to the timing chart supplied by cam maker.

8. 

   ne57 Well-Known Member

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   Thanks for the input. As to why a gear gear up...chain stretch. Combine that with how the align boring can change the crank/cam distance and a gear set seems to be the all around answer. OK, thay make undersize timing chains but at roughly the same price point, why non the gears? The Milodons arroyo $400, the Thunderchicken (Cat, thanks for that tidy bit) about a $100. That $300 difference could be valve covers.

   Money is non unlimited then if the CAT quality and immovability are OK, I'd rather spend 100 than 400. Only if anyone has negatory experience with the Cat(or Cat products in general) so I'll have to determine if the gear concept is THAT important.

   yep well OK. A unique mechanical sound would be cool also. Ya got me on that.

9. 

   FASTBACK340 Legandary Member Legendary Fellow member

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   Not for nuthin, but.....

   Practise you REALLY want to "salve money" on an un-necessary, cheap gear drive in a critical function of your engine? Do YOU want to exist the one who posts " Ya know that $100 gear bulldoze I installed? Damn crank gear stripped off and I bent 8 valves and croaky 6 guides. Now I need pistons and my heads re-built....and I need a good double roller timing concatenation!"

   I came *this close* to installing a gear bulldoze, but for the cooool racket, in my engine and thought twice about it. If you really want that cool racket, step-upwards and buy the known proven product and go the Milodon. Unless, your building a balls-out killer modest block, and so you don't Need the Milodon gear bulldoze. Otherwise, it'due south just an attention getter for the cruise-in.

   Just my .02

10. John is correct. The gear drive is only not necessary. In fact information technology may fifty-fifty impart detrimental harmonics into the camshaft from the crank causing more valvtrain harmonics that may influence timing events more than than any measured chain stretch. This is why all the Pro Stock and Comp Eliminator engines have gone to a belt drive.

    My engine is critically shut on valve to piston clearance, .058 int/.076 exh and after almost 6 years of racing it and twisting it to 7200-7500 rpm'due south I've nonetheless to bang a valve.

    Personally I think you become what you pay for and I wouldn't put a $100 gear drive in my engine. YMMV.

11. 

    ne57 Well-Known Fellow member

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    In my line of work I've been seeing more and more Chinese imports and some of them are only great quality and then I feel I have to disbelieve my natural pessimism in that regard. The Chinese factories volition make what the importer wants and if they specify higher quality that's what they requite em, if they specify inexpensive so that's what they get. Its similar the erstwhile "made in nippon' myth. It no longer equates that Chinese goods are necassarily junk. They might be, they might non exist. So that'due south why I was looking for someone to say what their existent life feel was with the True cat sets. Very expert point though virtually them existence unproven every bit yet.

    I was reading more and while the harmonics thing is valid, there'southward also the point that heavy bound pressures may wearable out a chain prematurely. I remember the 354 hemi I had many moons agone that had spark bounce at the timing marks. Rebuilt the distributor, new intermeadiate bushing, still bounced. Was it the concatenation? I dunno but I thought I might like to avoid the state of affairs if I could.

    If the gears didn't brand noise I'd still consider them for the precision and accuracy. This isn't a pretend motor just if it sounded wicked too, well that's OK. I think the whole betoken of a hemi dart is to generate excitement, no?

12. Yes but what are you considering to be heavy spring pressures? How radical is this engine?

13. 

    ne57 Well-Known Member

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    Well, that'south another part of the equation. I haven't measured the jump pressure level yet only interpolating from the build sheet(I bought these heads finished) open force per unit area is likely to be around 325lbs if I go with the .450 elevator cam I already accept on paw. I know 450 doesn't sound like much merely old hemis don't require every bit much lift as some other motors. I haven't ruled out changing the springs, depends on the cam I terminate upward with. If I go to over .500 on the cam open up pressure will increase.

    My tentative goal is 6000 rpms or so(seems a safe rpm for the reworked stock 392 rods, which Garlits told me he used up to 6500 rpms on nitro in his swamp rat 1. I've ordered some exhaust rocker reinforcement ribs that get welded on (former school I know but titan rockers just too much $). I'm told that will exist strong enough for the springs and rpms, jury nevertheless out though.

    I'k also told that the harmonics boot in effectually 7000 rpms. If that'south correct the gear drive shouldn't be a problem as far as that goes. Simply who knows? Nearly of my info comes from the web, and well...its the cyberspace, you know?

    Pitiful to exist talking hemi hither on a smallblock board but I thought since the timing sets are the same between the two motors maybe somebody here had some hard facts that I could apply to my eventual decision.

14. My engine has a .672 elevator flat tappet mechanical cam, valve springs are 140 on the seat and 440 over the nose. The chain is still fine however it sounds similar you've already made your mind up virtually running a gear bulldoze, I tin't help yous with that but wish you lot luck.

15. I was told by my engine builder that they induce substantial engine harmonics. I had put ane on my engine and when I brought it in to the engine builder for a rebuild the offset thing he said was remove the gear drive, if you want improved timing accuracy use a belt drive.

16. Trying the Cat Gear Bulldoze on the 318 based 402 I am putting together right now.

    Issues that I take institute.

    i) There is only 1 hole that needs to be drilled and tapped information technology is on the lower right bottom of the plate.
    2) Very difficult to degree the cam by skipping teeth on the cam gear simply.
    3) The plate will need to be clearance'd and so the timing cover will go along all the way and mate with the block.
    4) You will also have to cut the V out of the embrace to clear the bulldoze before buttoning it all up.

    For example my cam card says installed ICL @105*

    Using the standard fundamental it came in at 103*, skip a tooth and it came in at 115*, put in a Mr. Gasket 2* cardinal "that fits VERY loose in the cam" and is really 3.5* comes in at 106.5*, So I concluded up at straight up rolling the cam gear one tooth back counter clockwise and using a Mr. Gasket 4* Central to bring the cam back clockwise and concluded upwards at exactly 105*ICL, I found out that the 4* key is actually v* and it fits very tight in the cam just like the stock primal. FWIW

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

    

17. Hey Mad dart. I accept been running ane of these true cat gear drives on my 318 for a few hundred miles now. I recently pulled the engine to ready an annoying oil leak. While I was in in that location I looked at the gear drive and information technology was showing 0 wear. I am very happy with it and it is staying. I kind of like the sound anyway. For some of you that don't know, what exercise you think every Cummins has that pulls your race cars every weekend? Gear bulldoze.

18. I like the whine of a turbo but non a gear drive. It`s sounds like you`ve made upward your heed already to become the gear bulldoze but a good Cloyes chain would probable serve you likewise. On the flip side, I can understand you wanting something with a little flash to go with the old 392 Hemi engine.

19. That is good news! Nothing similar a big cam, gear bulldoze and exhaust dumping down right before the beam!! Going for the old school on this one! Regardless of what guys are saying, the quality of the gears, bearing, plate and hardware expect really good.

20. 

    POS Dakota Anti-Socialist

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    Is there annihilation you take almost setting upwards the gear clearance?
    Or is this something that is what it is?

    I ask because I believe the milodon for instance is clearanced with a sheet of paper.

    Thanks for posting this I am definitely interested now. I ever was interested, but the trash talk on these is knee-deep.
    110 bucks is a steal for it and I now see the auctions on ebay for them have improve pictures of the parts too. They definitely wait up to the chore.

    This may just be going on my 408.

    P.S. Make sure yous divert some of that bottomless upkeep of yours on a camcorder! I would honey to hear the mad dart and this new one whining away! Only bought all the stuff I need from brian yesterday, so I demand inspiration.eight)

21. 

    POS Dakota Anti-Socialist

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    Thank you for the input on the wear. Good to know.
    Aye screw this, I'm getting myself one.

    I looked at timing sets for hours last night and the i thing they all have in common is stretch. They ALL practise information technology.

    This doesnt stretch, and if in that location is no bear witness of wear yet, I'm cool with giving it a try. I experience a lot safer with that than a chain. The idler gear looks similar information technology fastens to that plate pretty strong.

22. I have the Milodon gear bulldoze on my 408. Information technology is cool. I've never hear the engine run, it's still on the stand, but when my dad was at he dyno shop, he said it sounded crawly, and he loved the whine!

    

    

    

    Barracks timing cover made by Magnum HP.

    

    

23. 

    ne57 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting to see the Milodon and the Cat have the idler on unlike sides and the pigsty drilled in diff places. Any input as to the hole drilling...ie hole does or does not striking h2o/oil or something like that?

    You tin definitely see the Milodon is engineered more. Is simple skilful enough?

    The Cat is available in noisey and quiet...any input on that?

24. I don't recollect the whole drilling doesn't matter...On mine, the hole did not get through any oil or water passages...And too the cam gear is adaptable, eliminating all the hassles that MadDart had on his considering it isn't adjustable...

25. 

    ne57 Well-Known Member

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    Umm, pardon what might be a dumb question but...on the CAT don't I see several keyways on the crankgear? Wouldn't y'all use those for degreeing?

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Source: https://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/threads/timing-gear-drive.84064/

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